Everybody Makes Cacio e Pepe Pizza Wrong

[00:00] Now, I'd bet my life savings that if I

[00:02] told you that you could make one of the

[00:04] best pizzas in the world with nothing

[00:07] more than a pizza dough, pecarino

[00:09] cheese, and ice, you'd say, "You, Steve.

[00:13] Get the out of here, you lying."

[00:17] But today, I'm going to blow your mind

[00:19] and show you why ice on pizza is a

[00:21] genius level and technically sound way

[00:24] to turn this icon into a worldclass

[00:27] pizza. This is Kacho Pepe pizza. As you

[00:31] evolve as a bread baker, you start to

[00:33] realize for pizza, breads, whatever, a

[00:36] good starter is easy and actually good

[00:39] to have around. And if you use the right

[00:41] flour, you don't have to worry about

[00:42] this kind of volcanic bubbly crazy thing

[00:46] that is kept out and is super kind of

[00:49] hard to manage. So, if you don't have

[00:51] this in your fridge, here's what you

[00:53] could do. the day before or even a

[00:55] couple days before you want to start

[00:57] this, we're going to make a little

[00:58] starter. And in this recipe, I have more

[01:00] starter than I need. So, that residual

[01:03] starter that I don't use gets refed. And

[01:07] then you just keep it going. So, here I

[01:09] have 200 g of room temperature water.

[01:13] I've got some instant yeast. And I'm

[01:15] just going to add about half that

[01:16] package. Maybe about four grams. The

[01:19] more you add, the more bubbly and faster

[01:22] everything kind of happens. This is nice

[01:25] and loose, if you can tell. Bubbly and

[01:27] thick and creamy, but it's happened

[01:29] slowly because we're not using an

[01:32] incredible amount of yeast. We're not

[01:33] throwing the entire package in. And to

[01:35] that, we're going to follow up with an

[01:37] equal amount of the water we added. So,

[01:39] it's one part water, one part flour. So,

[01:41] that's going to be 200 g. We're using

[01:44] bread flour. Bread flour got more

[01:47] protein in it. 12.7%. That's the protein

[01:50] content. That extra protein sort of

[01:52] creates like a more firmer, maybe like a

[01:54] little bit more resilient dough. And so

[01:56] to this, we just stir. We want to

[01:58] hydrate the water and the flour.

[02:01] You want to just make sure it's really

[02:03] kind of worked in well. And how you'll

[02:05] know it's ready is that it's kind of

[02:07] sticky.

[02:08] That's kind of what you're looking for.

[02:10] Try and clean up the sides. Now, what

[02:12] you can do a couple days before you're

[02:14] making pizza, you can put a lid on this.

[02:16] Put a rubber band roughly where it is

[02:19] now. And then pop it in the fridge and

[02:21] it should roughly double. Although

[02:24] doesn't really matter. You just want to

[02:25] see a loose structure. If you kind of

[02:27] jiggle it, a lot of action, a lot of air

[02:30] bubbles. So if it's not doubled, that

[02:32] doesn't mean it's not good. It's a

[02:34] characteristic we're going for rather

[02:36] than a volume. There's only 400 g of

[02:39] ingredients in there. So it's always

[02:41] going to be 400 g, even if it fills up

[02:43] this entire container. Now, if you are

[02:45] making this tomorrow, what I like to do

[02:47] is just leave this out at room

[02:49] temperature and allow the warmth of the

[02:51] room to kind of get it kickarted, maybe

[02:53] about an hour or so, and then pop it

[02:55] into the fridge. Let that go overnight.

[02:57] And then that would give us this today.

[03:01] And like I said, you're looking for that

[03:03] sort of ooze, a lot of air action, like

[03:06] a lot of webbing when I pull it away.

[03:09] What this sort of gives me is a starter,

[03:12] right? I don't need to now add any more

[03:14] yeast into the dough. This is

[03:16] essentially going to be my natural

[03:17] version of that. And even if this gets

[03:19] down to kind of nothing, if you can kind

[03:22] of scrape all the gunk off the sides,

[03:24] add more flour and water to it. You

[03:26] never have to add yeast to this again,

[03:27] really. So, now on to the dough. I've

[03:29] spent years intimidated by ds. And if

[03:32] you haven't noticed, this year we're

[03:33] focusing a lot on them. You know, you've

[03:35] heard people say you can't make a Philly

[03:37] cheese steak at home if you don't have

[03:38] the right bread. And I got good bread

[03:41] around here, but not everyone does. So,

[03:43] I'd rather start to learn how to make

[03:44] these things, even if I don't do it

[03:46] often, but just have it in my rolodex.

[03:49] So, to start in our mixing bowl, because

[03:52] of my shoulder, I'm sort of like moving

[03:54] away from hand stuff for a little while

[03:57] and relying on equipment. Something I

[03:59] like to do on this show is teach

[04:00] everything how to do by hand, so you

[04:02] don't need an equipment. But sometimes

[04:04] life has different plans. So, we're

[04:06] going to adapt. on a scale. We're going

[04:08] to get our mixing bowl on. To the

[04:10] KitchenAid bowl, I'm going to add 220 g

[04:13] of the starter. Now, I have some room

[04:15] temperature water, about 345 g of it.

[04:19] That's going to go straight in with the

[04:20] starter. So, that's measured. We can set

[04:22] that off to the side. So, now with that

[04:25] starter and water, we can set up our

[04:27] KitchenAid. It's going to be my friend.

[04:30] Get the dough hook in. And then we're

[04:31] just going to start it on low and just

[04:33] sort of break up the starter into the

[04:35] water. Now I can go in with my sugar. We

[04:39] need 10 grams of sugar. We need 15 grams

[04:42] of olive oil. And I'm just going to add

[04:44] half of it now and then half of it a

[04:46] little bit later. And then I have 615

[04:49] more g of bread flour. So I'm just going

[04:52] to use a small little container. I'm

[04:55] going to scoop some out. Put a little

[04:57] bit in at a time. And we're going to

[04:59] just slowly work in the flour, allowing

[05:02] it to hydrate more evenly, a little

[05:04] faster. Make sure all the flour gets

[05:07] soaked in that yeasty, milky mixture.

[05:10] It's a similar concept to the way we

[05:12] roll out fresh pasta. That little well

[05:15] with the water or the egg in the center.

[05:17] Slowly, we just work the flour in from

[05:19] the sides until it becomes a dough. Once

[05:21] it starts to become less soupy, we can

[05:23] kind of add a little bit more speed to

[05:25] it.

[05:27] Rest of the flour goes in, that's when

[05:29] the rest of our oil goes in.

[05:35] Now all the ingredients have combined

[05:38] except for the salt.

[05:41] Now that dough is looking nice. All I'm

[05:42] going to do is shut the machine off.

[05:44] Cover the dough with a towel. You're

[05:46] just going to let it rest for 20

[05:47] minutes. That dough is going to calm

[05:48] down and then we're going to add the

[05:50] salt. And if you weren't going to use a

[05:51] machine, you would do a technique which

[05:52] is basically kind of slapping and

[05:54] folding. You're just kind of getting a

[05:56] shaggy dough like this. Then you're

[05:57] resting. Then you come back, you form it

[05:59] into a ball, put it back in, rest it for

[06:02] 20 minutes, come back, stretch it, fold

[06:04] it over itself, come back for 20

[06:06] minutes. You can just do the same kind

[06:07] of idea in a stand mixer without having

[06:10] to use your bad shoulder. 20 minutes

[06:13] have passed. Now, that dough before was

[06:15] tough, right? So, that machine was going

[06:17] to fight. Even now, you could see how

[06:20] much more elastic it is. Now, we're

[06:22] going to go back onto We're going to now

[06:24] add in that salt. It's going to start in

[06:27] like this ball and then it's just going

[06:28] to start to kind of unravel a little

[06:30] bit. And you'll see the the side of the

[06:32] bowl, all that gunk stuck to it starts

[06:35] to get pulled away and cleaned up. The

[06:38] salt is absorbed. And now we're going to

[06:40] let this run for 6 minutes.

[06:44] Now, since we're doing a dough that's

[06:46] about 63% hydration, meaning 63% water

[06:51] compared to flour, that dough starts off

[06:54] sticky, which is why it sticks to the

[06:56] bowl. But as it needs, as it works, as

[06:59] the gluten starts to develop and the

[07:01] bread flour with all that protein and

[07:03] structure starts to get worked, it'll go

[07:05] from like sticky and hard to handle to

[07:08] tackier, but workable. And that's what

[07:10] we're looking for.

[07:16] 6 minutes up again. We're going to give

[07:18] it 5 minutes to rest.

[07:21] Another quick 5m minute break.

[07:24] Let it go for another 6 minutes. And

[07:27] then one more 5minute break. That's when

[07:29] we're going to do the window pane test.

[07:33] As you can see, the dough is much more

[07:34] relaxed. It looks very different, but

[07:37] it's all in the process.

[07:42] Then we're just going to cover it for a

[07:43] final five minutes. And then we're going

[07:45] to give it our window paint test. Less

[07:47] than 20 minutes of mixing, less than 20

[07:49] minutes of resting, and you're halfway

[07:50] to the finish line. So after that final

[07:53] rest, now we can take a look see. So I'm

[07:56] going to take the dough and stretch it.

[07:59] And you see how it's tearing? That means

[08:01] it needs a little bit more time. I

[08:03] really want good strength to the dough.

[08:05] So we're going to go another 5 minutes

[08:08] followed by another 5 minute rest. And

[08:10] we'll repeat that until the window pane

[08:12] has been achieved.

[08:16] Cover rest.

[08:19] Now let's take a look. You see how much

[08:21] more elastic it is? Now eventually it

[08:23] will tear. It's not infinitely

[08:26] extensible, but it should just feel

[08:28] really easy to work. And I just want to

[08:31] roll it onto the board. And then I'm

[08:33] just going to do a couple slap and

[08:34] folds, which is just basically picking

[08:37] it up, slapping it, and then folding it

[08:40] over itself like that, creating like

[08:43] tension to the dough. And then what I'm

[08:45] going to do is use my palms like that.

[08:48] And you're basically pushing up, over,

[08:51] back.

[08:53] Movements up, over, and then pull back.

[09:00] Trying to get under the dough with your

[09:01] fingers. Turn it again. Pull back.

[09:07] And then you got a beautiful dough. The

[09:09] bottom is nice and sealed. That's going

[09:11] to go into a bowl. Now we proceed to

[09:14] what is known as the bulk fermentation.

[09:17] Going to get it covered nice and tight.

[09:19] Then we're going to allow this to sit

[09:20] out at room temperature for about 3 to 4

[09:24] hours. We're looking for it to rise,

[09:26] right? But it's not about if it doubles

[09:28] or not. It's more about the type of

[09:30] consistency it is. Does it jiggle? Does

[09:33] it look airy? Are bubbles starting to

[09:36] form around the surface. That's what I'm

[09:38] looking for. And obviously some kind of

[09:40] rise. But, you know, it doesn't need to

[09:42] overproof or, you know, come out of the

[09:44] bowl. We're just kind of getting it

[09:46] started. And then we'll ball it, portion

[09:48] it, and it'll chill in the fridge

[09:50] overnight. There you go. It's been 4

[09:51] hours and we got where we want it. It's

[09:54] got a little jiggle. I can see little

[09:56] air bubbles kind of not going crazy, but

[09:59] you could see them forming. This is the

[10:01] sign of uh fermenting proofing dough,

[10:04] but it's not overproofed. That's what we

[10:06] want. So, we're going to get it out of

[10:07] the bowl.

[10:11] See there? You can really see the

[10:12] action.

[10:14] So, we're going for like 220 to 230 g

[10:18] dough balls. Let me take them and just

[10:20] sort of fold them on top of each other.

[10:22] Start to create like a little bit of a

[10:24] dough ball.

[10:28] You should get about five balls. You can

[10:31] do the same thing we did with the big

[10:32] batch to create the ball. Bring your

[10:35] hand around then pull back to keep it

[10:37] tight. There you go. I got one that's a

[10:39] little bit bigger. I'm going to use that

[10:41] for a different thing. I like to have

[10:43] differentiz balls when I make dough. It

[10:45] gives you kind of some options. You can

[10:46] get them into some containers. Cover

[10:49] them. And these go into the fridge

[10:51] overnight, 24 hours. You can go couple

[10:54] few more days, but 24 hours should work

[10:57] fine for you. We take it out, let it

[10:59] temper, and we make pizza. Now, today is

[11:02] day two, unless you didn't have a

[11:05] starter already. Tried to make this not

[11:07] a crazy long fermentation. Just 24

[11:10] hours. I'm going to pull out two of our

[11:12] doughs. Let that come up to room

[11:14] temperature. I told you we were making

[11:16] kaco e pepe pizza which would be the

[11:20] dough pecarino cheese and I've also got

[11:22] a little bit of parmesan mixed in maybe

[11:24] like a 2:1 pecarino to parm ratio and

[11:27] black pepper but just like in the four

[11:29] Roman pastas if we took kacho pepe and

[11:32] added guanchal we have alaga which we

[11:35] can easily do by the addition of some

[11:37] diced guanchal which I'm just going to

[11:38] get into a pot we're going to get that

[11:40] onto mediumigh heat and we're just going

[11:43] to slowly render out that fat and crisp

[11:45] up that guanchchala. That's going to be

[11:48] like the topping to turn it into greca.

[11:51] While that happens, I'm going to spill

[11:52] the beans. This is a technique you may

[11:54] have seen in my Sunday supper series.

[11:56] Chef Fausto, the pizza chef at the

[11:58] stand, a man from Naples, I might add,

[12:01] started playing around with ice on pizza

[12:04] during some downtime before the event.

[12:06] Now, he's a man of few words. So, as I

[12:08] watched, it all began to click to me.

[12:10] rolled a bit smaller to emphasize the

[12:13] cornachon or the crust of the pizza. Ice

[12:16] is placed in the center which does two

[12:19] main things. It prevents the center from

[12:21] puffing up just like a sauce and cheese

[12:24] might do. But it also does one other

[12:26] magical thing. It creates pasta water

[12:29] just like cooking pasta in a pot of

[12:31] water turns water into that gold that

[12:34] emulsifies iconic sauces like kachoi

[12:37] pepe. That pizza dough with all the

[12:39] flour dusted on top of it mixed with

[12:41] that ice does the exact same thing. Once

[12:44] the dough is cooked, the ice is now a

[12:47] pool of pasta water held in by that

[12:49] puffy crust. And with a simple addition

[12:51] of some pecarino cheese, a bit of

[12:54] agitation to form the emulsion. You've

[12:56] got a truly authentic way to make a

[12:58] kachoi pepe pizza while following all

[13:01] the same rules. Now, while this is

[13:03] almost crispy, mind you, I've had my

[13:05] oven preheated to 550 or the highest it

[13:09] goes with my pizza steel about halfway

[13:12] right in the center of my oven. That's

[13:15] been preheating for like 3 hours. With

[13:17] something like a pizza steel, when

[13:19] you're making pizza, you really want to

[13:21] give your oven all the time it needs. A

[13:23] woodf fired oven needs to be started

[13:24] like hours before you want to cook to

[13:26] get the base of the pizza oven up to

[13:30] temperature and retaining its heat so

[13:32] that every time you put a pizza on

[13:34] there, it doesn't cool down to a point

[13:36] where it can't recover. And if

[13:38] everything goes well, we're going to get

[13:40] a puffy crust holding in a bunch of ice.

[13:43] It's going to look like it was made in a

[13:45] professional pizzeria. Now we're nice

[13:46] and crisp. We're just going to run that

[13:50] through a strainer. Catch the fat cuz

[13:52] you need it to make the gichca. Top it

[13:55] at the end with our gonchal. Drizzle

[13:57] with our guanchale fat. We'll get greca.

[14:00] Now let's make a pizza. First up, I've

[14:03] got my pizza peel. I've got some flour.

[14:05] Hit it with some cornmeal. Just going to

[14:07] get roll that right onto the board for

[14:10] me. I'd use semolina. I just don't have

[14:12] it. Now, our dough looks beautiful. That

[14:15] smells like beautiful New York pizza

[14:16] dough mixed with a little margarita.

[14:18] This Steviey's new pizza dough. I'm

[14:20] telling you, this thing's money. I got a

[14:22] scraper. Put a little flour on the

[14:23] scraper. Put a little flour on the

[14:25] board. So, I'm going to take the

[14:26] scraper, put a little flour kind of

[14:29] around the edges, and then scrape the

[14:31] dough under. Get it onto the board.

[14:34] Now, you see this? This is the bottom of

[14:36] the dough, which is actually going to be

[14:38] the top of the dough. That imperfection

[14:40] is perfect to create the base on, while

[14:42] that nice smooth side can create a nice

[14:45] crust below. We're going to flip it. Get

[14:47] both sides coated. And then we're going

[14:49] to begin to sort of set the corn. So,

[14:51] I'm going to press in strongly.

[14:57] Rotate it. Set the crust.

[15:00] Set that edge. Set the rim with my

[15:03] fingertips. Just like that. Now,

[15:05] remember that's the bottom. Flip it.

[15:08] Do the same thing. Choking off the crust

[15:11] from the rest of the dough so that it

[15:13] puffs up nicely.

[15:16] Move the flower off to the side

[15:19] and just start to work it out a bit.

[15:24] Then start pressing out the center. And

[15:27] then we can take our palm, place it kind

[15:29] of in the center, stretch it,

[15:34] and then turn it. Don't have to do it

[15:36] fast

[15:39] and sort of stretch to the size you want

[15:41] it.

[15:44] Get our dough onto the peel. Make sure

[15:47] it moves. Then I've got these little ice

[15:49] cubes, these little balls of ice, almost

[15:52] like little cubes of mozzarella. I got

[15:54] it on Amazon. Our oven's preheated.

[15:58] We're going to get ice into the center.

[16:00] Fill it up just like uh you would

[16:02] mozzarella. We want a nice pool of water

[16:04] in there. Then we're going to pop it

[16:06] into the oven. We're going to give about

[16:07] 1 to two minutes and allow that crust to

[16:10] puff up, create that sort of cradle for

[16:13] the pasta water while the ice melts.

[16:15] Once that crust starts to puff, we're

[16:18] going to transition to the broiler and

[16:20] recreate the same environment of a pizza

[16:22] oven. Of course, the broiler is not

[16:23] working, you would do the broiler. We're

[16:25] going to make it work.

[16:27] Rotate it. And we're trying to brown it

[16:29] nice and evenly.

[16:41] It's a little bit of evaporation that

[16:42] happened. So, I want to make sure I have

[16:44] enough pasta water in there just like I

[16:46] would with the kachoy pepe to form the

[16:49] cream. Otherwise, it's just kind of

[16:50] bunch of grated cheese on top. Cheese

[16:52] mix.

[16:56] Making the cream. Keep going.

[16:59] So, we're going to create kind of like a

[17:01] creamy bottom.

[17:05] You're going to really want a good

[17:06] amount on there. Fresh cracked black

[17:08] pepper and you've got kachoi pepe pizza.

[17:11] Transform it to grecia. A little bit of

[17:13] that guanchal fat.

[17:16] Top with the crispy guanchal.

[17:27] You see that cream in there? The little

[17:30] dusting on top just like you would

[17:31] pasta.

[17:34] I mean, it's a really beautiful dough.

[17:37] Flavor is incredible. Reminds me of

[17:39] dough from New York slice shops I used

[17:41] to have growing up. Truly incredible

[17:43] that this had water on it. You haven't

[17:46] noticed, there's been a motif to this

[17:47] year, which is emphasis on fresh bread

[17:50] baking and dough making. You might not

[17:52] have noticed, but I've been subliminally

[17:54] training you to demystify the dough

[17:57] experience, which I once had. are soft,

[17:59] crunchy airy fluffy.

[18:03] Even if you're not interested in the ice

[18:05] part of this, this is your new go-to

[18:07] dough. Keep the starter alive. Keep

[18:09] feeding it a little flour and water

[18:11] every day. If it goes too long, throw it

[18:13] in some more flour, a little bit of more

[18:15] water. Throw it on the stove. Make fried

[18:17] bread for breakfast. Keep it going. Now,

[18:19] if you want the recipe, it's going to be

[18:21] linked down in the description. I've got

[18:23] some updates on the shoulder. It's not

[18:25] great. Not going to tell you yet. will

[18:28] in the coming weeks. Stay tuned. For

[18:30] now, that's all I've got. I'll see you

[18:32] next time. Until then, take care of

[18:34] yourself. Emphasis on that. Go feed

[18:37] yourself.